3/13/11 – 3/19/11 | What We Learned This Week

This week has been full of all kinds of different lessons. Let us take a moment to ponder on these and take what we can from these valuable learning experiences. Some may be hard to handle but we must come to terms with new things learned.

1. No matter how bad music gets, it can always get worse.

My cousin sent this video as a good example of a bad example. I must agree. Please, for your sanity, don’t watch it all. This one will not make you want to get Jiggy with it. It is one of the worst things I have ever heard.

2. We learned that unions are terrific, kind and loving organizations.

3. We also learned that I love to argue, but not with an angry attitude. I guess it’s called debate. (OK we already knew that)

As a result of the previously learned item I had the following exchange with an old friend on FriendFace:

Syble
This video and it’s narrator are perfect examples of how sensationalized media works. Either by fear, humor, or good old caveman impulse, they thrive on using worst-case scenarios to place that seed of doubt in the public mind about something that usually starts out as a step in the right direction.
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ME It’s always fun to use words like ‘sensationalized’ and ‘caveman impulse’ to counter a person’s presentation, but that does nothing to refute facts or principles that were mentioned. If you could, I would appreciate some help in seeing a refutation of his facts and principles that uses facts and principles.
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Syble
Sure. Most unions don’t do what his illustration of unions are doing. Most unions were formed to protect the working rights of those of who take on the difficult yet necessary jobs of our society.
I don’t enjoy using sensationalized or cave…man impulse as verbage, bc I wish there was no need. I wish people would do what is right. But you and I both know how free agency works.
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Syble I also have a hard time listening to people who have never been teachers openly trash teachers. If teaching were an easy job, then the attrition rate wouldn’t be 40% burnout within the first 5 years. I would go so far as to dare anyone to do my job for a week and still feel that budget cuts to public education are the answer. It’s almost as if “conservatives” are so concerned w making sure that they have no one calling their shots that they forget to use common sense about the common good.
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Syble Lastly, there were no facts or principles presented in the video. Just, as I said, worst case scenarios.
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ME
‎”Sure. Most unions don’t do what his illustration of unions are doing.”

Of course many unions don’t do what they are doing, does that mean we should ignore it when unions do it?

“Most unions were formed to protect the working rights of thos…e of who take on the difficult yet necessary jobs of our society.”

The video says the same thing. Albeit with some sarcasm on the side.

“I don’t enjoy using sensationalized or caveman impulse as verbage, bc I wish there was no need.”

There is no need. Simply put forth a substantive reply the first time.

“I wish people would do what is right.”

Like shutup? Should he not be able to use humor to make a point.

“But you and I both know how free agency works.”

I am not so sure that is true. (some clarification later)

“I also have a hard time listening to people who have never been teachers openly trash teachers.”

I did not hear any trashing of teachers in this video at all. The video is about the principles that unions operate on, in both the private and public sectors. Is it not true that unions can be a good force against greedy employers? Is it also not true that unions have destroyed the very companies that they work for? Is it not true that the public sector unions ‘provide essential public services with no competition’? If a public sector ’employer’ runs into the place where the private sector employer would go out of business because there is not enough money to operate what happens? A common reaction from public sector unions is threats, violent rhetoric, actual violence and riots. This is the crux of the video which does not include ‘openly trashing teachers’. Let’s try to address what was actually said in the video and not an imagined interjection. Part of the fun of having a union is being able to point to someone and say, “You hate ____ because you don’t like what the union of ____ is doing.”

“If teaching were an easy job, then the attrition rate wouldn’t be 40% burnout within the first 5 years. I would go so far as to dare anyone to do my job for a week and still feel that budget cuts to public education are the answer.”

Once again the video never mentioned the ease or difficulty of teaching. Personally, I would like to see public education go bye bye, even after teaching for a week.

“It’s almost as if ‘conservatives’ are so concerned w making sure that they have no one calling their shots that they forget to use common sense about the common good.”

This also seems to be somewhat irrelevant to the topic of public sector unions. But setting that aside, this statement could keep someone going around in confusion for a long time. If these “conservatives” are concerned with having free agency, is that not what is best for the common good? Or is it better to have someone calling all their shots for them which, by definition, eliminates their free agency? I contend that free agency, aka freedom, is best for the common good and I point to America and its protection of individual rights by rule of law as my exhibit A.

“Lastly, there were no facts or principles presented in the video. Just, as I said, worst case scenarios.”

There are plenty of facts and principles presented in this video. I have previously pointed out a good number of them. If you would like I could list them all for you.

P.S. Thank you for some level of actual engagement. I really like debate and discussion, as it either demonstrates that I have nothing to stand on or it helps to strengthen my position. The battlefield of ideas is the absolute best place to find truth. Many people shy away from it or even begin to hate or no longer be friends with others because of differences. I would never do such a thing. I very much enjoy being proven wrong and being proven right. Even if my lack of emoticons makes me sound angry or condescending, I am always having a great time when discussing things. I would remind you that I have come a long way as evidenced by my current use of punctuation and lower case letters.
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Syble
I don’t think that unions or how they function (or, at least, should function) would be a hot topic of conversation right now if it weren’t for the teachers’ unions in Wisconsin. So, I may have assumed that the fact that this video was mad…e recently (which it was) to educate some in the ways of a union is not completely coincidental with what’s happening in the cheese head state. If it is a coincidence, my apologies. But, I don’t think it is.

I think you know what I mean when I say that I wish those terms didn’t have to be used. But in my opinion, they do to help point out when people are being ridiculous (which this guy is NOT.) I should have chosen a different term. Maybe presumptuous?

Most conservatives I know are all for having a limited govt with the citizens able to do whatever they feel entitled to do…until their rights are infringed upon (like, their right to not have to pay for unions.) They are more than happy to be the first to bitch when someone else acts upon those freedoms (like, unions, per se) in a way that they don’t like.

I believe that free agency should be limited to not be able to screw up the lives of others. I don’t believe that free agency as it is (with millions of people in this country) is working. For example, I read an article today where someone said that it is “no one else’s business if I smoke in a public place. Conservatives know what I’m talking about, the govt is trying to hold us down and take away our rights.” Um, ok. What about my right to breathe clean air, and my child’s right to not develop second hand lung cancer? This is what I meant when I was talking about conservatives. Although, I will admit that I am making a general statement about conservatives, and that they don’t all feel this way. If America in all of it’s, um, glory is your exhibit for a working example of a successful society of free agency operators, then maybe we aren’t thinking of the same America.

I’m sorry that you feel that public education should be eliminated. I’m also sorry that you don’t see the value in what I have chosen to do with my life. I’d like to remind you that many of the people whose music you enjoy got their starts in the public music classroom. Do your kids not go to public school?

I think these conversations would be better in person, but as we are 14 hours from each other (in driving distance), that’s not an option.

I harbor no resentment for you or your opinions, and I’m happy to discuss them (and mine) w you anytime.

PS It kinda sucked when you said “Those who can’t do, teach. Those who can’t teach, protest.” I feel like teaching music is something that I am very good at, and I know it has changed the lives of others for the better.

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Syble I also think that these public sector unions’ protest comparison to the protests in Cairo is a perfect example of stupidity. Other than the fact that they are protesting, they have very, very little in common.
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Syble Also, most teachers don’t make more money or have better benefits than the common college educated worker. This is an unfact.
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Syble Also, there is money to be had to pay public sector union workers. It would just mean that our shit head congressmen and women would have to make less money, and the top 2% wouldn’t receive the tax cuts they feel they deserve (trickle down didn’t work, btw.) I don’t think the protesters are thinking that protesting will make more money appear. The money is there to be had.
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ME
I have been watching unions and how they function for quite some time. From the riots in Greece, to Hoffa and to a good old fashioned racist beat down, unions are terrific. Of course this video is not coincidental, it has clips from Wisconsin. But what he mentions is the way public sector unions work and how they often react when their ’employer’ hits that going-out-of-business moment.

There is no right to collective bargaining. There is no right to not have to pay part of your benefits and retirement. There isn’t even a right to a job. I am the first to bitch when people start making up new rights. http://everydaynormal.com/rights/

America as I refer to it is the idea, the experiment, the thought that people can rule themselves and that they have God given rights that are to be protected. In spite of many imperfections around it, that idea has been proven to be correct. I know of the America that has done horrible things throughout it’s history, but when I think of and refer to America I mean the powerful and very much overlooked principles behind its founding.

There’s that strawman again. I never said that I “don’t see the value in what [you] have chosen to do with [your] life.” Teachers have great value and perform a much needed service. Especially with the amount of parents who are derelict in their duties nowadays. I dislike the unions very, very much and I don’t like education being tied to government for several reasons. Nothing in there says that I don’t like teachers or teaching as a profession.

I really don’t like it when people take offense when I was not giving it. That is stealing. When I want to offend someone I will let it be known by labeling it “{FREE OFFENSE TAKE SOME NOW}” otherwise people should save their outrageous outrage for someone who is really giving it to them. I am sorry that the “Those who can’t do…” got to you but I thought it was funny and I really don’t think that the old saying is true. Much like I don’t put any stock in “Those who can’t do, teach and those who can’t teach, teach gym.” But it is still funny.

On the Cairo WI comparison let me correct one thing: “Other than the fact that they are protesting [and committing violent acts], they have very, very little in common.” – there, perfect.

“Also, most teachers don’t make more money or have better benefits than the common college educated worker. This is an unfact.”

As for the above, the video never said that teachers make more and have better benefits than college educated workers. He said public employees have more job security and their salary and benefits are also often much higher than the average taxpayer. That is absolutely a true fact. In spite of the qualifiers used in the video, do you know who is willing to say that the average elementary through secondary teacher makes more than the average non-farm employee? The Bureau of Labor Statistics. You should fill them in on their “unfact”.

If we got rid of medicare, medicaid and social security there would be a lot more room for paying teachers and we would get economy stimulating tax-cuts. Trickle down does/did work (read up on Jimmy Carter) and would work better if we had more people with public virtue and if we let bad people fail instead of bailing them out. But that is the separate topic of crony-capitalism that also gets my blood boiling. Regardless of all that, when a state, which can’t make it’s own money ‘quantitative easing’ style (or any other style), Runs a yearly deficit in the billions like Wisconsin has, then there is no money “there to be had” as it is already gone. That’s what a deficit is.
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Syble
Ok, I get where you are coming from.

The hard part about not bailing out bad people is that their children are usually left to suffer those consequences.

I think that the roots of our ideals are the same, Ed. I think we just see the solution …differently. Also, I think that sometimes you, and Klavan, leave sarcasm to be interpreted and understood as friendly banter, and sometimes it just isn’t.

4. We learned that horrible events can indirectly bring some of the greatest joy people will know.

5. We also learned that even evil rich people can, at times, take care of others.

6. We learned that science will always win over “science”.

7. I personally learned that this is not Louisville’s year to go to the Final Four.

8. We learned that lesson #1 from this week is more true than ever previously believed.

This could now be the worst thing I have ever heard.

9. We learned that Radiohead’s “King of Limbs” is a horrible album no matter how hard you try to like it or how many critics love it.

Pablo Honey < The Bends >= OK Computer > [everything since]. There I said it.

10. We learned that the new Superman may already be starting to disappoint or maybe not. Who knows anymore?

11. We learned that I live in the wrong market.

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