Friends of a Friend

If you know anything about me then you know that I enjoy a good debate, with the caveat that I enjoy a good debate that is free of logical fallacies. I like to debate for several reasons such as; it might change my mind on a given topic if I am incorrect in my current position, it might help someone else change their mind on a subject (yeah right), it helps everyone involved know where the other person is coming from and I gain more knowledge when I do it. I would feel comfortable saying most people do not share my view. Most people do not enjoy having their world view questioned as I do. I like to question all views respectfully and assess their merit. Such debate and questioning usually occurs, for me, in a one on one situation. Last week I found myself in a situation with several people making points at and even attacking me while I presented fact after fact shutting them down. Needless to say I was in hog heaven.

I find the exchange interesting enough to post here. I am changing the names to cute little nicknames and I am changing the order of posts to more closely match the order I saw them in and to make more sense in displaying responses. I will also add extra commentary. It began regularly enough with a friendface friend, who currently supports the slaughter of babies at Planned Parenthood and the continued government funding of said organization, saying this:

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Sen John Kyl said (on the floor of the Senate) that “90% of what Planned Parenthood does is abortions.” The problem is, that number is actually only 3%. When Kyl’s office was asked to clarify, they said that his statement was “not meant to be taken as factual.” Ha ha ha ha!!!

So to rain on the laugh parade I said:

ME
Sounds like a great place to cut some spending. 97% of what they do is already covered under medicare/medicaid and the other 3% “doesn’t use” federal funding anyway. Good find.

To which Friendface Friend replied:

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
I think Kyl’s job would be a great place to cut some spending. Anyone who says what he said is either in it for the wrong reason or doesn’t believe that we deserve the truth. Lastly, I already knew all of the extra info you shared.

MILITANT BABYKILLER
Wow, what a moron. So nice to know that idiots like that control serious issues that affect millions of lives. And all these MEN for that matter making decisions about family planning and abortion. They don’t have a uterus! I’m a little radical, but I don’t think it’s fair that men get to tell us what we can and can’t do. Sh***y men abandon their families, and aren’t left with the caring for unplanned pregnancies. If they skip out-are they judged? Not enough. MEN aren’t having to incubate a human inside them for 9 months. MEN don’t get stuck having to raise children and pay for daycare if they don’t want to. Oh, but I guess they do have the right to make up statistics.

Militant Babykiller is a goldmine of moronic points. I could go on for hours about this one post alone. Let’s just hit the highlights.

“And all these MEN for that matter making decisions about family planning and abortion. “

Whether she or anyone else likes it or not, it takes a man and a woman to make a family, with children and all the trimmings. Why would a man not be allowed to have a say in planning his family?

“They don’t have a uterus!”

This is one of the dumbest arguments for anything ever devised by anyone (more on that in my actual response to her).

“MEN aren’t having to incubate a human inside them for 9 months.”

OK so it’s alright to end the human life just because someone doesn’t want inconvenience. Thank goodness for her inconsistency or everyone would be in danger of getting killed by others who are inconvenienced in some other way. My actual response to her and Friendface Friend was:

ME
First, just know I don’t care at all about Kyl. You presented a false dichotomy and I hate it when options are presented as the only ones when they are clearly not the only options. Kyl is either “in it for the wrong reason” or he “doesn’t …believe that we deserve the truth”. He might have just been ill-informed, that is a possibility is it not? You have made factually incorrect statements to me before, should you lose your job? Besides we could not save money on Kyl’s job since the people that elected him must be represented. Unless you are advocating the dismantling of our system of elected representatives and checks and balances.

I don’t have a uterus but I used to live in one. The uterus argument is one of the stupidest arguments ever. What about women who had hysterectomies? Taken further this line of logic could be used to exclude women who have never had children or even women who have never had an abortion from making any points about it. I have never murdered anyone but I will gladly tell other people not to, even without the experience of ending a life myself. If a woman doesn’t want a child we have something called adoption which is much better than killing. Or there is also not sleeping with the wonderful “sh***y” gentlemen that keep skipping out on these sluts. It is good to see though, that even though it is only 3% (according to their own numbers) Planned Parenthood is still the go-to location for slaughtering babies.

Bonus Factoid: Did you know Sanger’s first incarnation of Planned Parenthood was called the “Negro-Project” and was formed to get rid of black people?

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
I didn’t present the uterus argument. So, no response there from me.
Sluts is a pretty strong word, Dale. Not only promiscuous women find themselves in these situations.
If he just got his info wrong, why didn’t he say that?
Nope, didn’t know that about PP.

ME
When was the last time you heard a politician admit they were wrong? Again I care nothing about Kyl and know nothing about him besides that he is a politician and it generally takes a certain type to be one, oh and he is a lousy fact checker. As for “slut”, tomayto tomahto.

Extra Factoid: Did you know that until recently you could specify that pp donations could go specifically towards killing black babies only?

HOOKED ON PHONICS
Does anybody know the cost of adoption in the US? I do. The going rate is 30 grand. Women keep their babies even when it is not in the best interest of the child. Friendface Friend I love you sugar for so many reasons. We agree on so much and I love the fact that you are fearless! Keep up the good work!

ME
So, human life = $30,000. Got it, good to know. I know where you could give a baby away for free.

Extra Extra Factoid: Margaret Sanger on occasion referenced black people as “human weeds”, “reckless breeders” and as “human beings who never should have been born.”

HOOKED ON PHONICS
Really Dale please tell me. My best friend lost her baby 3 days before her due date and would love to have one of those free babies you think are out there for the taking.

ME Learn to read, Hooked on Phonics. I said, “give a baby away”. We were talking about the slut side of things and not the adopter side. There is no reason it would ever cost someone $30,000 to put a baby up for adoption.

I later checked her and found a screaming deal on adoption starting at $4,000.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND:
Jeez. I only thought it was laughable that one of our over-paid, under-qualified “representatives” was making a very erroneous statement about numbers, which were the entire point of the statement. The statement happened to be about an issue that was moments away from causing a govt. shutdown. In a situation like that, getting the numbers right is pretty important. When asked about his statement, he basically shirked responsibility. And, that made me laugh.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
This is such a sensitive issue, and everyone has their own reasons for how they feel. None are more important than another.

HOOKED ON PHONICS
No need to worry! The brow beating has made me change my mind completely.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Dayna, you made me laugh out loud!

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Also, Dale, just because politicians don’t usually admit that they are wrong doesn’t mean that now wouldn’t be a great time to start….for ALL of them.

^That last one contributes nothing. Just because I can’t fly doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a great time to start.

Here’s my reply:

ME
@Phonics – Oh, I didn’t think you would be able to read the brow beating.

@Friendface – Not killing people is much more important than all other reasons.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
What about women who would die if they didn’t receive said service?

ME Just as you can kill a full grown adult in self defense there are exceptions to all rules. That’s just common sense.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND: Yes, it is. It is the exception that in a black and white situation can make all the difference.

Uuuuuuh…ok…that’s a weird response.

ME
All situations are black and white. Each individual one has it’s own correct answer and every subset of that possible situation has it’s own correct black and white answer. There is never a gray.

I am ok with a procedure in cases where a life is at risk, or where a crime has been committed such as rape or incest. Those are hard situations with hard decisions to be made. Much the same as I am ok with snuffing out full grown lives for self defense, war (which should only be for defense) or possibly criminal situations. Although I would prefer to not have the death penalty really.

As has been said before, in person would be a better way for such discussion and would more than make up for my non-use of emoticons. Also Kyl sounds like a real winner but if you think politicians giving fake numbers is funny, pay more attention and you will laugh your a** off all the time.

Speaking of black and white/right and wrong, apologies to {Phonics} about the “learn to read” thing. But seriously it’s called “Hooked on Phonics”. Joking joking. Apologizing starting now.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
I think there’s a gray….

MS KNOWITALL
regardless of how anyone feels about abortions, they are 100% privately funded. It is, in fact, illegal to utilize any Title X funding on abortions. (and has been since 1976, I believe) And, that is all that matters when we speak of federal funding for a very important organization that is essential to women’s health.

OK, so nevermind that killing babies is wrong. “All that matters” is that tax dollars don’t pay for the slaughter. Phew.

ME
@Friendface – Nope. No gray.

@Knowitall – you just reiterated my good reason for de-funding. Hooray!!!

Although you do overlook Kathleen Sebelius’ statement about all funding going to the same pot and having no guarantee that tax dollars don’t pay for abortions. Oh and you overlook the fact that killing babies is wrong.

MILITANT BABYKILLER
Yeah, there’s a gray. Thank goodness some people believe that or we’d all be f’d.

Uuuuuh, how exactly would we be “f’d”, genius?

BLAH GUY
It’s not up to us to pass judgment on grey areas God will ultimately do that. How ever God says in the Bible that I knew your voice in your mothers womb.

If there are truly gray areas then how would a just God pass a black and white judgment on anyone? The reason He can judge is that He knows each black and white correct answer and all the facets of each situation.

ME
I’d like an example of a moral situation where there is no clear right and wrong then. Show me this gray. Open my eyes to this hazy light/darkness. I hope it’s not like the gray area used to justify slavery or mass slaughter or other horrible acts throughout the ages. Gray areas are only for those trying to get away with something while their conscience bothers them.

BLAH GUY
Black and white a baby does not create major organs while in the womb it’s known that when the child comes out it’s going to die immediately. I think that’s a grey area.

ME
‎@Blah Not gray. If it is fully known that no organs will ever develop it is a very easy choice.

MS KNOWITALL
so, I just read some of the thread above…and I see that you already know funding does not cover abortions, Dale. I do have to ask you this why do you assume the other 97% of the services offered by Planned Parenthood is covered by medica…id/medicare? Btw, I am speaking to PP only because you used 97%, which is only a number specific to PP, where as Title X does not only fund PP. So, please…tell me, I am interested in an off the cuff response~

ME
‎@Knowitall – Missed your earlier question post – Quick answer: unless PP has a purple nurple service that they charge for that I don’t know about then every other service can be taken care of with insurance or medicaid or found down at free clinics all over the place. No need for special funding. Of course that need would never ever possibly exist anyway.

Also, it is currently legal for tax money to fund abortions because of the 2009 omnibus bill nullification of the Dornan amendment.

The placement of this one is strange because I read it in this order. The next section actually happened right before my last reply.

MS KNOWITALL
Leaving black/white, or gray out of this….you still did NOT answer my question. I wonder why that is?? Because you’re statement was absolutely false!! The majority of PP patients are NOT eligible to be covered by medicare/medicaid darlin’! Furthermore, you are so cookie-cutter “right” in your sad excuse for a rebuttal in vomiting some bs about Sebelius, please provide proof of this statement, I’d love to see it. And, btw, if you seriously think that every single medical service paid for by the government is not completely audited you have lost your mind (which is clear in everything you say anyway). I bet you think Obama is an Alien, and his not American as well eh? hahaha…

Oh, I will shut her up.

MS KNOWITALL
p.s. to be clear, I think killing babies is wrong too, I would never have an abortion. And, thankfully, believing in another woman’s choice is not contradictory to my own personal moral code.

What a stupid “moral code”. I also believe in other people’s choice. I think we should ask the babies if they would like to live or not and wait for a response. I also believe that a woman can still “choose” to murder someone because of inconvenience. I just want to live in a society where there is a swift consequence for such a choice.

ME
‎@Knowitall Wow so much hatred and venom. All over a comment I never saw. So much ad hominem was “vomited” by your clearly, lost long ago, mind; judging by “everything you say anyway”.

By the way how do they not qualify for medicaid? do they make too much money? http://www.medicaidinformation.info/articles/55330/Medicaid-Coverage—Mandatory

– “darlin'” idiot

Next one is out of place as well. It belongs after my “learn to read” statement but I didn’t see it til now. Seriously though, how hard is it to read what someone wrote and respond accordingly?

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Also, it is possible to make a point/statement without being derogatory.

HOOKED ON PHONICS Okay Friendface you win! Longest personal thread I have ever seen on FB. Way to GO!

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Yikes. This was not my intention. And, um, I love you all. The end!

Then I thought I would finish with these, which I think answer pretty much everything:

ME
‎…was headed out the door earlier. I have more. ( I never quit)

Obama as an alien – Born in Hawaii, jus soli.

I also added the video evidence for Sebelius pool of funding talk. You know the BS that doesn’t exist.

Sebelius BS –

Government meticulously auditing –

I also threw in a shot at the original post. I know that technically Kyl was wrong with his numbers, but he may have wanted to say this:

PP 97.6% of pregnant customers get abortions – http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/11/politifact-misleads-in-bashing-jon-kyl-over-planned-parenthood/

extra extra extra bonus:

TROLL LADY
-please stop feeding the troll…

Anyone who actually knows that a “troll” is not someone who comments and shares opinions about something, but rather, is someone who posts things that can evoke an emotional response and detract from a discussion will see the huge irony from Troll Lady.

HOOKED ON PHONICS
I thought of it as poking the bear myself.

ME
So…Party at Friendface’s house?

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Party at my house. The only rules are that elephants have to talk to donkeys, and vice versa. And if you are neither donkey or elephant, you’re responsible for drinks.

LATE FOR THE SHOW
Ok. Killing is evil. So let’s save lives and money by pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

ME
I am neither an elephant or donkey but I don’t drink. Anybody like milk? We can do the gallon challenge.

@LATE – Iraq/Afghanistan – Amen!!!

I hate the assumption that I am a Republican because I hold certain views. And I hate that one might assume that I want our troops to be in Iraq or Afghanistan because of my views on slaughtering babies. I also don’t like political parties and will probably never join one.

ENTERTAINED LADY
Thanks for the entertainment!!

“BOOM WINNING” GUY
Wow Friendface… You should start a blog.. Have a feature column for Dale.. Kind of like Andy Rooney. I think he’s great.

That was the last I saw of it for a few days until I went back to it for writing this up and saw the following:

KILLING BABIES IS FUNNY GUY
Just think… if Planned Parenthood had aborted John Kyle, I wouldn’t be reading this awesomely long thread.

You also wouldn’t be reading it if they had aborted you. Don’t make it right.

FRIENDFACE FRIEND
Ha ha ha ha ha!!! Thanks, KBIFG, I needed that.

Oh yeah LOL!!! All the people who never got a chance to breath think it’s real funny too.

CROWDED MASS MURDERER
the population continues to grow, why would anyone cut spending at PP? I am ProChoice, If I were rich, I would be a philanthropist and donate money for women who can’t afford abortions.

If I were to reply to the new statements I might say this:

ME
Some groups of people hold no value for the human lives of other groups. Some people look down on the infidels, some on the Jews, some on those with different skin color and some people don’t value the lives of anyone of an opposing view. Other people don’t value those who have yet to make their own choices and voice their own opinions. Each of these are human lives and each contribute to the population that “continues to grow”. Why pick the most innocent and fragile group of these to slaughter en masse? Because it’s easy? Because the others have been tried before? Who else can we destroy to make some more elbow room in this crowded place, as though we can currently barely breath or move about? Expand your list to really solve this problem, you philanthropist you.

If you can’t tell I am very passionate about some things and I have facts and principles to back me up. Roe v. Wade is the Dred Scott case of modern times, as it is so blatantly against the principles of our nation’s founding.

Tell me if you think I should post my reply.

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